By Manila Ryce
Published Saturday, September 8th, 2007, 10:20 pm
Filed under: Economic, Human Rights, Videos: Political, Society/Culture: Racism, World Issues, Videos, Society/Culture, US Politics

7 Responses to “Real Time with Bill Maher 09/07/07 – Mos Def and Cornel West”

1. The more Bill talks the less I agree with him. There is a lot of killing in the bible as well…especially in the old testament.
   Quit being a racist sectarian bastard…a funny one but a racist bastard none the less.

   Nathan Anderson
   09/9/07 at 7:17 am
   

2. Yeah, Bill did well when he just let the other guys talk, though last week he was on point, especially with John Mellencamp (who kept putting his foot in his mouth trying to defend Middle America).

   Maher mentioned Sam Harris’ name, which is somewhat unfortunate. Harris’ specific criticism of religion is very sound, but to think that religion is the root of all evil, which is basically what guys like Harris, Dawkins, and Hitchens think, seems more than just a little simplistic to me. Maher was right when he said that America would’ve still made land-grabs whether the Louisiana purchase was made or not. Religion was not at the root of America’s conquest of Native American, Mexican and other territories during the 19th century. It was simply used as a justification. Whether the religion existed or not, wealthy capitalists would have still found someway to rationalize their need to “civilize the savages” by murdering them and driving them out of their land.

   The same is true with the British Empire, the Spanish Inquisition, the Roman Empire, the Mongolian Empire, etc. The greed and racism are simply framed in the language of religion in order to mobilize popular support. We see this same technique used by modern propagandists who use words like freedom and democracy to mobilize support for unjust preemptive wars.

   Sam
   09/9/07 at 10:15 am
   

3. Manila, I don’t disagree with the notion that the government had something to do with the 9/11 attacks, but I agree with Bill that this was not quite the inside job you make it out to be. And no, I don’t believe that the arguments that Harris, Dawkins, and Hitchens make are not simplistic in any sense of the word because whether religion is the central tenet or a justification for using terror and fear for the sake of conquest it still proves the point that religion is the problem. As Maher stated to Dr. West’s assertion that Stalin was an atheist, “No, Stalin was a god that people feared.”

   Spartacus
   09/9/07 at 1:09 pm
   

4. @ Spartacus: There’s a big difference between religion being the central tenet and religion just being a justification. The elimination of religion from any of the above examples I listed would likely not make any difference. It’s kind of a chicken and egg argument. Did religion create the greed that drives people to invade other countries and murder other people, or is religion just the justification used by people who were already greedy who wanted to mobilize support for their conquest? I think orthodox religion is poisonous, and I’m completely in agreement with Harris when he sticks to criticizing the validity of religious claims and the medieval stupidity that often stems from fundamentalism. But to suggest that it is the root of all evil and that its elimination would prevent to a significant degree human greed and antipathy IS simplistic. Religion or no religion, people will always find rationalization for the misdeeds of themselves and their “group,” whether that group is based on religion, nationalism, philosophy, or some other doctrine.

   Sam
   09/9/07 at 2:25 pm
   

5. Manila,

   I just saw that episode and I agree that its an instant classic. Both Mos Def and Dr. Cornell were amazing and came full force with their ‘fight the power’ routine.

   On religion being a justification for people’s pre-existing ambitions and greed, I agree that those with power tend to use this tactic. But on the other end of the spectrum, those on the receiving end of the powerful (those with no ambitions for greed or power), I would say that oppression plays a significant role in their use of religion. Many people who feel oppressed find religion as a legitimate outlet that gives them Divine justification to fight back, justified or not.

   brnaeem
   09/11/07 at 4:33 am
   
6. 

   I love how often Dr. West corrected Maher. Now I enjoy watching Maher
   but he does need to hire better researchers.
   His comedy writers are spot-on but his researchers
   need to send better info into his earpiece.
   Mos Def to the uninitiated may have come off
   looking like another hip hop star who believes in conspiracy.
   I hope not. To those of us familiar with him and the issues he
   addressed, he was passionate, fiery, and tired.
   Tired of the injustice and tired of an America that refuses to wake up.
   It’s revolution time. A revolution of the minds.

   1st time visiting this site and I must say that it is a welcome addition to my Favorites.

   Stay Gold!

   el el cool che
   09/11/07 at 7:43 pm
   
7. 

   You know, I read all these responses, including
   Manila’s commentary before actually watching this
   video and I gotta say, I was really expecting Maher to
   be slamming religion pretty hard. I didn’t see that.

   Instead, I saw him calling out the…I don’t know what
   to call it; arrogance? Naiveté? Just plain ol
   stupidity? Let’s just combine all 3…of the South
   Korean Christians who thought that trying to convert
   militant Muslim Extremists was a Good Idea. You don’t
   send an extremist to convert an extremist. And if you
   want to try, especially in places like TALIBAN
   COUNTRY, I suggest you send as missionaries the
   members of your congregation whom you like the least.

   I read this story weeks ago, and at the end of each
   version was the comment by Evangelical Christian
   Groups that “now we’ll be rethinking our strategy.”

   NOW??!! You’ve only decided NOW that you should think
   about this?! It only took some of your missionaries
   getting captured and having their lives very possibly
   threatened to just STOP AND THINK A MINUTE??!! You
   know, if you had done this from the beginning with any
   amount of reason and, I don’t know, Common Sense, you
   wouldn’t have sent your precious churchmembers into
   the heart of a population that hates them. I’m not
   talking about your standard “heathens” who just don’t
   happen to be Christian. I’m talking about Extremist
   Muslims whose dealings with Christianity have been
   historically and mutually brutal, atrocious, and
   downright negative. Do you think if a member of the
   Taliban went down to Georgia and tried to convert the
   infidels, they would welcome him with all the niceties
   of the legendary Southern Hospitality? No. That guy
   would be lucky not to get fucking lynched!

   So thank you, Bill, for calling out stupid. And to
   all you religioso bloggers, I can’t believe you’re
   defending this!! As Christians, or whatever, seeing
   your fellow flockmembers do completely ignorant shit
   should piss you off, not cause you to rise to their
   defense!

   Now as far as religion being the root of all evil,
   just to address the point that so many bloggers seem
   to think this episode was about, I agree that this is
   too simple. IGNORANCE is the root of all evil. It
   just so happens that, traditionally and historically,
   Religion facilitates, and has facilitated, ignorance.
   I agree that Religion is a justification for
   ignorance, it’s a very powerful and EASY justification
   for a lot of people. The powerful will always find
   justification for their own intolerances, greed, and
   hatred, but Religion is simply the easiest. Take it
   away, and they are forced to do a lot more work. You
   know, things like BACKING UP THEIR ARGUMENTS WITH
   FACTS. That’s a lot harder than “cuz God says so.”
   So no, it’s not as simple as Religion=Evil, but it’s
   pretty damn close. And keep in mind that, in the end,
   whether Religion is the central tenet or a convenient
   justification, to the people who are maimed, tortured,
   oppressed, and/or killed, it doesn’t fuckin’ matter!
   You’re basically comparing two piles of turd; one with
   frosting on top, and one without. Either way it’s
   shit, so what’s the difference?

   On a positive note, this was a great episode, and both
   guests were awesome to watch. I only wish Mos Def was
   a little less Lemos in his arguments.
   Those who know him will know what I’m talking about.

   PapaFigue
   09/12/07 at 5:21 pm
   

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