By Manila Ryce
Published Thursday, March 20th, 2008, 11:53 am
Filed under: Videos: Political, World: Asia, Society/Culture: Drugs, Videos: News, War, Terrorism, Videos, Society/Culture, World Issues, Society/Culture: Racism, US Politics

20 Responses to “The Real News - Obama and Reverend Wright”

1. Maybe you should listen next time. Open those ears, baby. Obama might be scaring you a b-b-b-bit hey? Too much of the truth. Your reaction looks a lot like the reaction of white South Africans after Mandela was released. But don’t worry - Mandela poved them wtong. And so will Obama. Obama is no Mandela - he is the first Obama. http://angryafrican.net/2008/03/19/obama-is-no-mandela/

   Angry African
   03/20/08 at 12:33 pm
   
2. 

   @Angry African
   And maybe you should actually read the post next time. My reaction is the same as White South Africans? Do you have any idea what you’re talking about? What does any white person have to fear from Obama?

   Manila Ryce
   03/20/08 at 12:38 pm
   

3. You just can’t stand that theres someone out there that could actually pull people together can you? You get off on “angry” more than any angst-y teenager I’ve ever known. I’m beginning to think you aren’t much different than a right winger. Just as intolerant of different ideas or perspectives and just as sure you know the “one true way”. I’ve never heard as fair a discussion on race in my life from anyone, much less any politician. The main stream media doesn’t like Obama. He’s not their puppet. The good reviews his speech has received have been done so grudgingly. They wanted dirt and drama (because it boosts ratings) and he gave them thoughtful commentary (which they hate). So thoughtful, they had to acknowledge its impact. He defused the situation going against the grain and managed to bring a large swath of people together. But because he didn’t agree with your pet issue, you didn’t even listen to the rest of the speech. I bet Bill O’ Riley watched it longer than you did and thats just a shame.

   I’d prefer Kucinich by far, but I recognize that Obama will be the next President and probably the best we’ve had in a long, long time. I don’t think he’ll be the second coming, but I am starting to think that he will at least listen and is capable of reason. Words are easy, we’ll see if he follows them up with deeds.

   He was speaking about you in his speech you know. The people who are so consumed by themselves they can’t see anything from another’s point of view. Maybe you do know, and thats why you dislike him so much. Naw, its probably because he has something you don’t have, Hope.

   Ricky
   03/20/08 at 3:19 pm
   
4. 

   @Ricky
   “You just can’t stand that theres someone out there that could actually pull people together can you?”

   Pulling people together isn’t the issue. Ask yourself about the cause these people are uniting behind. Neocons have the ability to pull people together too.

   “You get off on ‘angry’ more than any angst-y teenager I’ve ever known.”

   Fair enough, though Angry African hardly deserved a warm response. He failed to challenge me on any point made in the post other than to imply that my criticism of Obama was racist in nature, all in order to promote his own fluff piece. Angry African was simply a troll who found my blog on Google, dropped his link, and will never return. I have no problem with people bringing up valid criticisms of my articles, as you have done, though you’re cutting it a bit close.

   “I’m beginning to think you aren’t much different than a right winger.”

   See, that’s what I’m talking about. Accuse me of hating America while you’re at it.

   “I’ve never heard as fair a discussion on race in my life from anyone, much less any politician.”

   The part on race wasn’t what bothered me. If you’ve read my posts, you’ll see that what I found fault with was the ignorant Zionist rhetoric.

   “But because he didn’t agree with your pet issue, you didn’t even listen to the rest of the speech. I bet Bill O’ Riley watched it longer than you did and thats just a shame.”

   Yeah, I couldn’t watch the entire thing cuz I had to get ready for my date with Ann Coulter. Ridiculous. Anyone knowledgeable can tell you that the Israeli/Palestine “issue” is the center piece of any peace talk in the Middle East, so if you want to dismiss it as a “pet issue” of mine alone I have to question your own understanding of American foreign policy and global attitudes.

   “Words are easy, we’ll see if he follows them up with deeds.”

   This is essentially my argument. If you’re not an Obama-maniac, then why the hostility when I look past those words and criticize his policy? Clinton, Obama, and McCain have essentially the same policy regarding Israel, but had this post been about the other two candidates I wouldn’t be the object of your ire. Now why is that? Words.

   “He was speaking about you in his speech you know. The people who are so consumed by themselves they can’t see anything from another’s point of view.”

   Tell him I’m flattered then. If Obama were actually able to see the Israeli/Palestine “pet issue,” as you call it, from another point of view then he wouldn’t be the frontrunner would he?

   “Naw, its probably because he has something you don’t have, Hope.”

   This blog wouldn’t exist if I didn’t have hope. What I don’t have is masturbatory optimism. Talk about being “consumed by yourself”.

   Manila Ryce
   03/20/08 at 6:36 pm
   
5. 

   @ AngryA

   Mandella was released but the white man still owns all the banks down there and in turn the economy and in turn the country. So as much as I appreciate your analogy, it’s essentially a moot point because the skeerrrrd white men they showed on TV were most probably actors pretending to be scarred. Besides, what was ol’ Nelson going to do down there anyway… last time I looked S. Africa was still fubard. But upon further review is this what you meant by: “Mandela proved them wrong…” ? Meaning: he didn’t do shit and nothing changed? I dunno. And yes, he’s the first Obama — so what? He’s also related to Dick Cheney.

   And finally: @ Rickey

   Once again, you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that any fool can get suckered in by a pretty face and a flashy smile. Ryce said it best: “Even Neo-Cons can rally the troops.” Hell, I can rally a bunch of 6th graders to lick a frozen flagpole but that doesn’t make me a great man. Nor does it make Obama. He’s a stooge like the rest of ‘em, playing both sides, jerking everyone off and making sure the young faithful of the country, who fancy themselves intelligent because they follow politics and have an oppinion, have faith in the system. Yes! Keep the faith! Believe in Obama as the world continues on its 6000 year crash course! Yes! He’s the one! Wait! Maybe it’s true! 2012… he’d be president then… YES RICKEY!!!

   HE IS THE SECOND COMING!!! No wonder he hasn’t been shot yet! He must be Jesus! And the Neo-Cons were right! It’s what we’ve ALL been waiting for!

   Swing low sweet chariot!

   yazo
   03/20/08 at 7:25 pm
   

6. @yazo
   Go look at my blog www.angryafrican.net to see my views. It’s just a bitch that I won’t allow myself to be put in a little box. Having been an activist for my whole life I know bullshit when I smell it. And no. Not some soft western activist who thnks it is cool to be against Starbucks or Nike. An activist who have actually been there and seen the shit happening. And South Africa is fine thank you. Problems? Of course, it is a big country. With limited resources. But don’t believe what you see in the media over there either. Most are too conservative. But a vibrant debate is going on - always. Read the Mail & Guardian and see what a real newspaper should be all about. But I am not going to swallow it just because it’s fed to me as “radical”.

   @manila
   You’ll see I blogged about your comment on my blog. Didn’t name you. But don’t expect me to be pro or anti just to fit your views.

   Angry African
   03/21/08 at 2:46 pm
   
7. 

   @Angry African

   “You’ll see I blogged about your comment on my blog. Didn’t name you.”

   Yeah, I saw your several-page-long dedication telling ME to get over myself. You did the typical character assassination thing: calling me a bigot, a neocon, a coward, and a hatemonger. I must say, I was expecting more of a coherent argument rather than an emotional rollercoaster ride, but I am flattered that you’d dedicate such a lengthy rant to me on your main page. A more equal conversation would’ve been possible in your comments section, but whatever makes you happy. You’re not trying to engage in an honest debate about Obama’s platform anyway. Raise that banner high and don’t let reality ruin your parade.

   Manila Ryce
   03/21/08 at 3:02 pm
   

8. @Manila
   Don’t flatter yourself. The whole blog wasn’t about you. I reacted to what you said and a few other people that I won’t allow to comment. They said more colorful things - like me being a traitor needing a noose and that they have the tree ready. I know you aren’t all those things. I was talking in general about people trying to force me being for them or against them. I didn’t fall for it when Bush said it - so no reason why I will do it for you either. And your response in the comment section wasn’t that coherent either. You didn’t back up what you said about Obama - you just spewed it out. And did not back it up with anything. But that is blogging. You put your opinion out there and then see how people react. The beauty of democracy - we are inherently different and need some system that allows us to express that difference without the hate and war that goes with the alternative.
   Do I think Obama is perfect? Hell no. We are talking about people here (the “we are different with different opinions” bit). But when I compare him to current world political leader ANYWHERE he stands out. Except maybe Wade in Senegal who won’t get the scope because he is in a small country. So I know the reality - read again - I have been there. But I also know that hope is much, much better than hate and hatespeech.
   It’s a shame we take each other on like this. We most likely agree on 90% of things, but we let these things divide us. I think we have bigger problems in this world than the differences between you and me. And it’s a shame that we both want change 9whether we believe in Obama or not). And we most likely agree on 90% of what that peace should look like. But we throw stonees at each other. Typical. we are like Trotskist - put two in a room and they will split into three different sect.

   Angry African
   03/21/08 at 3:55 pm
   
9. 

   @Angry African

   I can assure you that whatever pressure you perceive from me is self-imposed. I never said you couldn’t have an opinion (in fact, I encouraged you to challenge me on the issues), nor did I start this war of the words. In your original comment here, you accused someone you didn’t know of bigotry and fear simply because they didn’t hold the same opnion as you. Now you’re turning it around to say I am the one who is guilty of being close-minded?

   On your blog, what I literally said was that Obama was pro-war, pro-Zionist, and pro-corporate. These are political topics which very much make him a part of the American ruling elite. I am more than willing to debate that with you in a civilized manner if you can refrain from calling me a bigot. So far, that hasn’t happened. We can have that civilized discussion if you choose. Otherwise, I see no sense in continuing this hollow flame war any further. I’m not a fan of soap operas.

   Manila Ryce
   03/21/08 at 5:34 pm
   
10. 

    Wow.

    @Angry African
    First off, kudos for sticking to your namesake. You do the Native American Tradition very proud. Secondly, I think what started this whole row was the assumption that Manilla was somehow attacking Obama because he’s black. Maybe it’s just me, but there are two glaring truths that make this assumption invalid:

    A) Manila’s main target was the corporate media’s unfair handling of this situation. Even you must concede that the Rev. Wright/Obama faux paus has gotten FAR more coverage than that moronic congress-woman’s comments in Hillary’s camp. Any guesses on why?

    And B) Manila doesn’t like Obama as a candidate for president for the same reason he doesn’t like Anyone in the race right now, and that reason is: Cuz they’re Not Dennis Kucinich. Period.

    Look, racism does exist, but it’s hard enough to battle it where it Actually exists without people making it out to be an all imposing force to be reckoned with, like the Devil or the actual Force (Dark Side, of course.) I agree with you that out of the 3 candidates chosen for us by the media, Obama is the best one. But whomever I vote for will depend on their stance on the issues, not thier skin color, or gender. Obama is obviously smart and capable of inspiration. I mean, hell, he’s Written more books than our current pres has ever read in his life! But I have yet to hear any plan from the guy, only a lot of vague, yet beautiful, speeches about hope and promise.

    Again, I’m not trying to attack you or anything, but in Manilla’s defense, I just don’t logically see how this debate over his “bigotry” got started. Is he biased? Of course he is! He’s made it no secret how far Left he likes to lean. But is he, as you’ve implied, racially biased? Again, I see no evidence of this whatsoever, which is very odd since mongrel cracker-ass-chinks are known for such things…

    (Or is it Gook? Damn, I hate when I get my idiot-racial epithets mixed up. It makes me sound all ign’nt n’ stuff.)

    PapaFigue
    03/21/08 at 8:17 pm
    
11. 

    @PapaFigue

    I prefer sandal-wearing goldfish tender.

    Manila Ryce
    03/22/08 at 1:56 am
    

12. Hey Manilla,
    With respect, I disagree that, ‘Obama’s just another puppet with a new face and white liberals can’t get enough.’

    I’m surprised you don’t see Obama as a progressive candidate. You are obviously passionate about social justice, and he is the only candidate that I know of who has a real track record in advocacy on behalf of the poor. The reason why so many people like him is that in many ways he is the antithesis of the politician we have all come to know.

    If you want to see genuine change in the attitude of the United States towards its most vulnerable citizens, I don’t think there is a question that Obama is the best person to elect. In terms of US foreign policy, he may not be as radical as some of us may want, but again, of all those with any real chance of being elected, he comes out tops. His life experiences are such that his worldview is a lot less narrow than that of most Amricans.

    No, the man isn’t the incarnate messiah, he is just as flawed as Mandela and Kennedy and all the rest of us. But I think he genuinely cares and is humble enough to listen and try and understand the perspective of others.

    That’s why so many of us like him.

    Tsuro
    03/22/08 at 2:41 am
    
13. 

    Thanks for your comment Tsuro, but I’m still looking for something concrete in Obama’s platform which will convince me that he is indeed interested in helping the poor and ending war outright. A single-payer not-for-profit healthcare system and commitment to withdraw ALL troops from Iraq would be an obvious start. Both are entirely possible for Obama to commit to, but he won’t.

    A change in American attitudes would be nice, but a change in American policy would be nicer. I agree that Obama’s broader world view should give him a different perspective. So why hasn’t it? Why then is his platform nearly identical to Clinton’s?

    Manila Ryce
    03/22/08 at 2:59 am
    

14. Manilla,

    Thanks for replying my message.

    Maybe it’s about timing. The truth is that there are certain things you cannot say if you are going to be elected. You know that movie scene where the guy goes ‘the truth? You can’t handle the truth!’ Well, a lot of people can’t handle the truth.

    Take this speech on race. He could have just waffled, but he chose to go a long way in bringing out all our unspoken racist beefs. The result has been that only the converted have appreciated it. Most of the masses have missed the point.

    It has been said that a leader sees further ahead than most, then gently reels his followers in and help them see the light. I know I’m an optimist, but from his life so far, I reckon Obama has earned the benefit of the doubt. If not him, then who?

    Tsuro
    03/22/08 at 10:16 am
    
15. 

    Thanks Tsuro. Again, I’m not calling his understanding of race relations into question. I have almost no disagreement with what he said about race. It’s his actual platform which I am concerned about.

    Also, asking “if not him, then who?” is a question which is hardly relevant. Your goal should not be to prove that he is a good candidate only in comparison to Clinton or McCain, but to show he’s a good candidate on his own. If we were to suspend the fact that he’s the most electable candidate because he’s the frontrunner for the Democratic Party and compare him to candidates from third-parties, like Nader and McKinney, he would hardly measure up in terms of policy. Criticism of Barack’s politics is essential whether you support his candidacy or not. Falling back on his personality or electability to dodge issues regarding his platform does not prove your point.

    Manila Ryce
    03/22/08 at 10:30 am
    

16. @papafique and @ manila
    Hey, I never attacked Manila based on an assumption that he has a race issue - I know he doesn’t. The bigotry issue came from a comment left on my blog and my broader blog on people trying to force me into a position. He indicated that I am pro-Zionist. And my counter was that I am neither pro or anti. That the for and against arguments are typical of Bush-type policies.

    I still don’t agree on the policy positions. He assumes that Nader has better policies. And that Obama’s “pro-business” is bad. since when is business bad? My experience is that anyting can be bad and anything can be good. For instance - I worked for Oxfam and I am an ex-trade unionist from South Africa. (see my blog for details) - Oxfam sucks as almost everything. But my experience during the tsunami was that business came to help more than anyone else when we called for help. And they wanted no kudo’s for it.

    To follow Manila’s argument - if you say pro-business is bad. Build on that and give alternatives and and reasons. The world is not black and white. You have good governments and bad ones. And good non-profits and bad ones. And good businesses and bad ones.

    @tsuro - lets go for nsima

    Angry African
    03/22/08 at 8:52 pm
    

17. This little pissing match is hilarious. I went to Angry African’s page just to read Manila’s comment, and I have to say I thought it was very funny.

    Angry African should change his name to “Crazy, Long-Winded African.” I scrolled through a few of his epic posts, and like Manila said it was a whole lot of words about nothing. Just like here, he keeps bringing up irrelevant points and attacking Manila for things he never said or did.

    Manila is correct that there is no real policy difference between Obama and Clinton, or even Obama and McCain. But I do agree with most other posters here that Obama, however imperfect he may be, is a step in the right direction. I will be voting for Gravel in November, but I would be pleased if Obama were elected. He is a huge step above Bush, and he did well during his term, maybe the American masses would begin to see that “left” isn’t really so bad, and we could continue the march towards a truly peaceful society based on (as Dennis likes to say) workers’ rights, environmental principles and universal health care for all in the next election.

    But what will probably happen is that Obama will have some massive scandal, and the pendulum of the American masses will swing even more to the fascist right than they did this time around. Or even more likely, McCain takes the general election due to equal interference by good old American racism and Diebold.

    Andy
    03/23/08 at 2:32 am
    

18. Uh oh, there’s a pretty serious typo in my post which almost makes it look like I said Bush did well in his term. I mean to say IF Obama “did well during his term, maybe the American masses would begin to see that “left” isn’t really so bad…”

    Andy
    03/23/08 at 2:34 am
    

19. @Andy - I agree. This pissing match is funny. I think we are marginally different on most issues. I am not a Democrat - I can’t even vote in this election as I am not American. My observations are from my experiences in South Africa and Africa in general. Comparing those who are standing to other global leaders. And maybe the mistake is comparing people to the already weak. And it is a bit like pissing inside the tent. We might not agree on a few things - but we have one thing in common that might make us more unified than otherwise - a fight for justice. But I guess we will be good Trotskists and disagree on that as well.
    I agree - I am Crazy, Long-Winded African. You been to Africa? It takes us an hour to say hello. Or maybe I took too much time living in the UK where it takes half a day to still not say yes or no. It’s a blog. It’s not meant to be a deep and sharp analysis. That’s why I left teaching Political Science in the first place. Too boring to stick to the “science” part. I am wordy - no shit Sherlock. That’s what will happen when you have no time but for the 40 minutes commuting on public transport.
    I agree on the policies that are needed. I am an ex-trade unionist from South Africa. First NACTU and then COSATU. From pan-Africanism to far left.
    But anyway. Pissing match isn’t helping us get any movement going. It’s just a pissing match. Just a shame we do what we accuse others of - start insulting each other without any substance to our claims. Me included. Maybe it is time for the “left” to grow up and act a bit different from those on the right - and not only on policy, but also how we conduct ourselves. I don’t think this “debate” we had actually helped achieve that in any way. Me and Manila - an envelope going nowhere.

    Angry African
    03/23/08 at 5:50 am
    

20. @Angry - Nsima?

    @Andy - I agree. I think because Obama is such a decent human being engaged in politics, and not a politician, he won’t win the nomination. There are too many vested interests with too much to lose if actually succeeds in bringing about the change he has been calling for. I’m sad to say that the only difference between politics in Africa and in the West is in the methods - the rest is the same.

    @Manilla - I agree that it shouldn’t be about the most electable person. Unfortunately though, if a well intentioned candidate said all the right thing, he would never get anywhere close to becoming the president of the US, or most other places for that matter. We can only hope that someone like Obama is holding back a little for the sake of electability.

    Why don’t I have the same hope for the other front runners? They haven’t done or said anything to warrant the faintest hope.

    And Manilla, great post and blog - even if I disagree with a lot, you’re doing a great job man.

    Tsuro
    03/24/08 at 6:47 am
    

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