By evmonk
Published Wednesday, June 18th, 2008, 10:02 pm
Filed under: US Politics

5 Responses to “Ralph Nader on DemocracyNow!”

1. Mr. Nader is admirable and articulate. Yet again, the Democratic party is just an empty vessel for any individual with great articulate proposals for government (such as Ralph Nader) to fill. Why does Mr. Nader not influence the Democratic party discourse by running as a Democrat in local elections or apply to any number of significant positions in the party? This idea that you will be ‘outside’ of that ’system’ because it is not near being perfect enough for you is puritanical, and overly simplistic in the sense that it does not actually confront or negotiate with whom and what is wrong. Not negotiating with one’s adversaries (with those we disagree with), pretending that one can have it all their way, is in step with the Bush administration.

   This difficult life is a constant negotiation with individual’s policies we disagree with or know to be terribly unjust…a corrupt institution or Party is a collective of just such individuals (not just some objective machine or system). Lets confront those individuals in a real way, that is, from within the organization (the Democrat Party), as opposed to from a place that announces itself as being separate entirely. If you declare a separation you predictably meet the expectation for an opposing point of view, if you join and confront from within, you oppose and propose but you also must negotiate and empathize…which in my experience is how real confrontation exists and real change comes to be.

   What if Mr. Nader were to be on the House floor with individuals such as Rep. Kucinich, in solidarity, as opposed to running for President of the entire USofA? We leftists need to understand that our battle is a difficult one because we do not propose to just win…Karl Rove knows how to ‘win’…we have a far more challenging prospect, namely, to win, but more importantly to win in the good way–which again, means one has to recognize complexity, articulate specific proposals, and empathize with adversaries.

   erik
   06/18/08 at 11:57 pm
   
2. 

   Thanks for posting this Ev. I was just about to do the same thing.

   Erik, you obviously have a distorted view of the Democratic Party. Your insistence that the Democratic Party “is just an empty vessel for any individual with great articulate proposals for government (such as Ralph Nader) to fill” is absolutely false. Please back that up with something other than opinion. For example, show me a Democrat besides Kucinich who isn’t completely in line with the pro-war policies of AIPAC. Your rejection of the notion that change must occur outside the Corporate Democratic Party is not only defeatist but historically inaccurate. You’re not only saying that the people have no power, but that third parties such as the Liberty Party (whose abolitionist platform eventually eliminated slavery because their agenda was picked up by a main party) was useless. And if you’re going to spout off about negotiation, perhaps you ought to point the finger at the Democratic Party you love beyond reason. In the last two elections, Ralph has agreed to drop out of the race if the Democratic nominee simply accepted three of his policies. They won’t even talk to him. Perhaps you ought to be blasting Gore and Kerry for rejecting universal single-payer healthcare instead of Nader for trying to pressure the corporate Democrats to adopt it. You’re making comparisons between Ralph Nader and George Bush over this issue when the current Democratic nominee just recently threatened to go to war with Iran and continue the Neocon agenda of the past eight years? How pathetic you Democrats are to have less backbone than your representatives. Stand behind ALL opposition to the imperialists. If you folks had any understanding of how much you’re being used every election cycle you’d pressure the people in your own party to represent you instead of attacking better people outside that corporate club.

   Manila Ryce
   06/19/08 at 2:51 am
   

3. Manila, no I am not “being used every election cycle”, thank you. That we are all just being “used”, (save for a select few?) is over simplifying reality and not a particularly interesting claim to make in the year 2008 in critique of imperialism or global capitalism…Foucault was right on many things but his constant conclusions that human relationships are only about power, and that we are all being used by some system, were cynical and not generous enough in considering the radicality of the subject. It is really all-just opinions we have, no?…objective historical facts are a collection of subjective opinions…any good post-colonial historical thinker such as yourself knows that. Let us not degrade each other’s subjectivity as ‘mere opinions’ just because we disagree with that individual’s argument…that is not rigorous enough if we are to pose a substantial critique of US Imperialism today.

   I certainly did not try and make the argument that the Democratic Party is anywhere near completely wonderful. I think a collective of individuals who represent many different constituents will be far from perfect, but that is why a strong and articulate voice such as Mr. Nader must persist in entering that imperfect collection of voices, as opposed to addressing that flawed group as a clearly non-negotiating opposition figure. That approach is admirable, however, does not negotiate with the complexities of the many different individual voices that represent this country, not to mention the world. And again, why does Mr. Nader need to be President of the entire USofA? Being right is not the only qualification for being elected president, unfortunately. I am sorry to hear that the Democratic party has not been more generous with Mr. Nader’s proposals. Though, I wonder how his proposals would be met if he were a congressman representing a district of voters, as opposed to someone who repeatedly runs for president and who is (unfortunately) perceived by far too many as a conversation non-starter. Let us make proposals that are truly radical, that is, let us make our proposals from within an imperfect place as opposed to the old idea that we can somehow attack from the outside. The fact is that many Democrats do agree with Mr. Nader’s proposals, the argument is in his approach/delivery.

   erik
   06/19/08 at 8:17 am
   

4. I love Ralph.

   Dr. Monkey
   06/19/08 at 11:18 am
   
5. 

   Erik & John:

   Despite the heated rhetoric, I don’t think any of us are that far apart here. We all agree that the Democratic Party is failing to provide a strong and genuinely progressive alternative to the Republicans. And I think we agree that the result of our current two-party system is a country increasingly controlled by corporations, often at the expense of the common good. We’re all looking for solutions to this problem.

   Nader is doing his thing as an independent candidate, which I respect and think is vitally important. At the same time, I’m embarrassed to say I’ve never even THOUGHT about what a Democratic Party with Nader in it would look like. Granted, one elected official (especially if they’re a representative and not a senator) can’t create massive change on their own, but it’s an idea worth considering.

   There is more diversity in the Democratic Party than it seems; we just don’t hear these voices often enough. For instance, on AIPAC, a quick Wikipedia search reveals that Reps. Betty McCollum (D-MN) and James Moran (D-VA) are both strong and public critics of AIPAC lobbying.

   A resolution supporting Israel’s war with Lebanon in 2006 passed the House by a vote of 410-8. That means there are at least 8 people in Congress willing to take a strong stand against AIPAC, and most of them are Democrats.

   I’m not sure whether, at this point, Nader’s voice would be more effective within the Democratic Party. But it’s worth thinking about and discussing. Ultimately, I think we should move away from a two-party system and toward a system with multiple parties, proportional representation, and full public financing of all elections.

   evmonk
   06/19/08 at 1:19 pm
   

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